It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). However, make sure to use struts when placing landing gears on the far edges of a multi-part wing because they may sag enough to cause a fuselage collision with the runway during landing. The default max stress value is just ridiculous, its like flying in hair gel, everything gets torn apart so easily, like that will ever happen in real life. Keep at around 15 degrees to allow the plane to accelerate past 1000m/s. As such, you will need various control surfaces. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Try getting the wings to deflect the air down, either by lifting the front end up using canards or by mounting them at an angle using shift + wasdqe. 4. Note that no wings will tolerate more than 2400K, so the difference in temperature tolerance between Mk2 and Mk3 fuselages isn't terribly significant. These occur at their worst when your center of gravity is far ahead of your rear landing gears and you have a heavy plane at high speeds and a high angle of attack on landing, resulting in your front landing gear rapidly striking the runway after your rear landing gears touchdown. I found biggest cause of this as well as not being able to possibly correct is having sas on during takeoff, make sure that is off during take off and should find problem is less likely to occur, but I too struggle to make working space planes even when center of lift, mass, thrust are all as needed. I have also thought about a wider base. A FedEx cargo plane in Austin nearly landed on a runway where a Southwest flight was preparing to take off. I also used Intake build aid to balance the intakes. Before you can make a successful plane, you must understand what makes a plane go in places other than the ground - the wings. When your nose is stable at about 10 degrees above the horizon, pull up hard and keep it pulled. When landing, you can achieve the highest lift for a given speed by raising the total angle of attack of your wings to 30 degrees (although this induces a great deal of drag). Powered by Invision Community. Geometric shape of the body you attach the landing gear to. as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. If that's not an option, you can still recover some value by landing at any suitable flat place on Kerbin. The only drawback to the reduced friction is reduced steering control, so this setting may need to be adjusted when taxiing to/from a runway, but should otherwise be kept minimal for takeoff and landing. i have no idea why this happens please help. Either put more engines or reduce the amount of rocket fuel. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. I dont really need 200m/s for take off. If you're planning on landing on a somewhat uneven surface, like an open grassland somewhere on Kerbin or an island on Laythe, consider packing some parachutes for deceleration. Obviously jet engines are air-breathing, so you need to include air intakes in your spaceplane. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. 2. My first test of the plane parts in KSP2.Like and Subscribe for more Kerbal stuffs!#kerbalspaceprogram #ksp2 #kerbalspaceprogram2 #shorts #spaceplane #nasa Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. It doesn't really matter if you angle them or not, there is not a single configuration for the wheels that can work on all plane parts. Brakes in the back keep you stable. Your wheels should now have 0 degree angle between them, meaning they are both. Such as not producing lift, which is not what you want with a plane. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. You can deploy your chutes just prior to touchdown for rapid deceleration. Because of how small Kerbin is and how high its gravity is, a perfectly flat surface just north of the equator will cause planes taking off to bias to the right of the runway, as if they were rolling downhill. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. If you have seen the examples above, I have planes that have angled landing gear and they work perfectly, yet some planes with straight landing gears don't. - Have enough lift, either by a big wing area or high speed. Thermal turbulence, caused by convection, happens below clouds and typically only impacts planes during takeoff and landing. It is also common to add an Inline Clamp-O-Tron, which, unlike all the other docking ports, can be placed in the middle of the spacecraft (a handy solution, since there is not much space at either end of the craft) to allow your plane to dock with space stations or other spacecrafts. Unfortunately, with only these basic parts, landing on the runway won't be easy; a viable alternative is to throttle down to nothing, then belly-flop in the ocean. My plane usually take off at a little over 120m/s. These should be in the bottom left next to the display of the cost of the aircraft. 6.4K Downloads Updated Jun 7, 2017 Created Jun 7, 2017. . Landing speed (minimum speed for level flight) can be reduced by adding components to increase maneuverability, by using larger wings, by increasing wing angle of attack on the fuselage (3-5 degrees is the recommended range for a spaceplane to achieve the best lift-to-drag ratio [source]), and by decreasing the weight of the aircraft. But regardless of that, try very hard to let the plane fly itself off the ground without you applying any controls. KSP 2 speculation: I believe terraforming will be a feature of the game. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. See if there is still a problem when only travelling slowly, say <20m/s. You can either go with four "LY-O1 Fixed" or a tricycle of two LY-01 near the back and one "LY-05 Steerable" at the front; either is fine for now. This allows you to avoid the extra weight and mass of additional fuselage parts, so you only have to deal with the extra weight of the fuel itself. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). What you ought to be using is the Swept Wings and Elevon 1s instead of the Delta-Deluxe Winglets. If, instead, all goes well, then once your jet engines have shut down you will need to start the second part of your space mission by switching to rockets. Note: The large delta wing will ensure you won't backflip. As long as you're in space, your spaceplane won't differ from any spacecraft: you will probably want to add batteries and generators to prevent the command pod from running out of power. The Mk1 fuselage parts only tolerate up to 2000K, while Mk2 fuselages tolerate up to 2500K, and Mk3 fuselages tolerate up to 2700K. You cannot paste images directly. Powered by Invision Community. For an example, see the A-10 Warthog's landing gears: link. And, of course, try to take off and land as slow as possible. That said, parachutes are an exceedingly effective means of reducing your stopping distance. Remember how you want your center of lift/drag to be behind the center of gravity? Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. T-1 "Dart" engines are unique amongst conventionally-fuelled rocket engines: They have close to the highest efficiency in both vacuum and low atmosphere. Your wings provide the lift, and they cant provide lift if your wheels are too far back because then your base is to stable and the craft wont pivot upwards. My plane tends to wobble on the runway with the stock game so i decided to download FAR, but the problem still persists. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. Keep your spaceplane pointed about 90 degrees above prograde so that the wings and body of your aircraft slow you down as much as possible. For spaceplanes, avoid the FAT parts (wing, tail fin, and control surface). Besides the good advice others have given, I would also be very careful with that little tailwheel. This is also the same reason why planes start rolling toward the middle of the runway; because both ends of the runway are further from . Congratulations! You want an elevon on each set of wings. Although I usually only need 50 m/s for most planes to wobble out of control. Hopefully this gets you your first aircraft that can take off and land, which is the biggest hurdle to being able to make KSP aircraft. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14. You main problem is your landing gear. The Whiplash's ridiculous fuel efficiency allows a spaceplane to climb high into the atmosphere and gain a lot of speed while barely using any fuel at all. A Ravenspear Mk3 taking off from the Runway in version 1.0.5. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane. However, I want to place my wheels where i want to and not only on X parallel surfaces. This is for the same reason that you keep your fuel balanced. Set up for a long glide path, and watch rate of climb indicator at top of screen, aim for -5 m/s. All of them had one thing in common though. To minimize the risk of such a situation, try to land on a large patch of flat open ground approaching a downhill slope. * Gear not mounted to parts that will flex (e.g. Saves a lot of headache in wheels placement. Now for wings, the "Wing Connector Type B" is the largest you have so far; connect a set of those where the centre of mass is. To survive re-entry, it's recommended to start your approach back into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, ideally with a periapsis of around 30-35 km. Take the large delta wings and place them on the aircraft. . This is all right if their high efficiency saves enough fuel, but that may not be the case in small spaceplanes with limited fuel capacity. How do I fix this? It can be helpful to use a slightly taller front landing gear and slightly shorter rear landing gears so that your fuselage points slightly upward on the ground, thereby increasing the angle of attack of your wings while on the ground. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). Note that the lift rating does not mean that the wings will automatically lift a spaceplane into the air when it's moving forward. To slow down faster, you can increase the braking strength of your rear wheels. I have found a solution to my problem. If you plan on either dropping off cargo or picking up cargo and traveling with it, you'll generally want to locate your cargo bay at the middle of your center of gravity. When I use it for spaceplane guidance it keeps me on the correct heading, but the flight is very busy sine wave of a path. Rapiers generally provide less thrust than a Whiplash at speeds below mach 2, but provide more thrust at higher speeds. All rights reserved. Secondly, it would suggest that your spaceplane's center of lift is too far forward compared to its center of gravity (causing the uncontrollable spin). When your jet engines stop working, it is time to ignite the old, reliable liquid fuel engine. 5.whether the body you anchor the landing gears to are firm. Let it get good and clear of the ground before applying any control to it. If you need to carry more fuel, consider using the Big-S Delta Wing as it provides the same lift-to-drag and lift-to-weight ratio as any other wing of the same mass, yet has the ability to carry fuel as well. If you're tired of big rockets that use tons of fuel and disintegrate in the atmosphere when coming back to Kerbin, this tutorial is perfect for you! I took off and at 60 m/s I was in the air! and our For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), which hinders the plane taking off. To avoid wobble, wheels need to be absolutely vertical, and they shouldn't be attached to something that is likely to flex as speed builds up, as this could also affect the vertical alignment. You want to get up to get the gear tucked away and reduce drag. This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! I've had stability issues in planes where I'd have proper gear setup, balanced weight and lift. Control surfaces are heavier than wings. This would indicate two problems. Heavy Cargo Space Plane SSTO Download. Check out the following guide for some good info: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures They are able to operate at higher altitudes and can even continue operating in a vacuum by switching to a rocket mode. Also pay attention to your fuel balance, especially if you're using several tanks placed in parallel to each other. For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), whichhinders the plane taking off. It's a prolem enough I have sever differen gear subassemblies that are stable (un wobbly) I can then position depending on COM. And at the extreme, producing down force, which I'm sure would cause more gear issues. Maybe ;making the tailwheel less stiff would help, too. But be careful and don't crash it! So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/13851-The-woes-of-building-a-space-plane?highlight=woes+spaceplane. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. Any ideas? I was attaining high speeds on the runway without getting off the ground, which made the plane yaw back and forth. I'm making sure that I keep trying to get it up but it just wont go! So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? Keep your spaceplane pointed about 90 degrees above prograde so that the wings and body of your aircraft slow you down as much as possible. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. If you have trouble pitching up enough to land at a reasonable speed, you can increase your maneuverability by toggling your flaps, canards and ailerons to greater than 100% control authority. Conversely, if you keep all of the fuel in the back, you may find that your center of mass gradually drifts so far in front of your center of lift that you can't keep your nose up anymore, also potentially resulting in a fatal scenario. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! Do you have a screenshot of the craft? Now put on center of mass and center of lift view, and move the delta wings until the center of lift is slightly behind of the center of mass - not in front, otherwise your aircraft will be able to easily flip out of control. It is advised to place your control surfaces as far from your center of mass as possible. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. LV-N "Nerv" nuclear thermal rockets are commonly used on SSTOs for the rocket stage if Rapiers are not used. Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. While all other cargo bays are fine for making spaceplanes, the Mk3 Cargo Ramp produces obscene amounts of drag, which can easily prevent reaching orbital velocities by itself. Display as a link instead, Consider placing your rear landing gears close to the spaceplane's center of mass, but be careful to avoid an engine collision with the runway. That way you can use aerodynamics to lower the tail, rather than trying to raise the nose. Also, lift is usually placed in the middle-to-back of the wing, depending on the shape. If you keep all of the fuel in the front, you may find that your center of mass drifts backwards as your fuel drains. Landing can be trickier for spaceplanes since they are designed for higher speeds than other aircraft and may not be able to fly level at speeds low enough for an easy landing (<50 m/s). Re-entry heating can destroy parts of your spaceplane, or destroy it entirely. I believe the issue is there is not enough control surfaces to offset this issue, but it comes up very easy so it is not a very big deal. I was wrong. Mk2 aircraft may be able to get away with it, but even then it's often best to space them further out. When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). Your aircraft might just be too heavy - there might not be enough wing lift for it to take off the ground. LV-N exceeds 75% of its full power at just 7700m altitude on Kerbin. @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's cheesy and wouldn't solve the root problem. However, they do take a conventional mix of fuel and oxidizer, and thus require much more fuel mass than jet engines or LV-N Nerv. 67K subscribers in the KerbalAcademy community. (However, it must be noted that it is bad practice to use ailerons as elevators since it makes it hard to control the aircraft), The rudder moves the tip of the plane left and right; it is rarely used, since it is hard to put it both up and down due to the possibility of hitting the ground. I feel tat it is either due to the symmetry placement in this game being inaccurate or certain parts where i anchor my landing gears on are not perfectly symmetrical and the physics calculation is just too sensitive about even the slightest misalignment. Not sure why you would want that stability for speeds in excess of 200 m/s though, as most planes will take off and land at far slower speeds. This allows you to takeoff at lower speeds and on shorter runways, and likewise for landing. LV-N has less than 25% of its full power at Kerbin sea level. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. The FedEx plane pulled back up in time to avoid a collision. For more information, please see our Kerbal Space Program 2's simulation is a lot more in-depth than its predecessor, where it was feasible for any wannabe Goddard to punch through the atmosphere with overwhelming thrust. . Plane spins/lurches to the side during takeoff? I don't have any mods but sometimes a problem may be a simple bug. "Type E" is the smallest you should have, and you want a set of those connected at the back of the fuselage. If you use an Advanced SAS, and raise your front landing wheel so that it is higher than the rear wheels, by just turning the SAS on and going full throttle, due to the 10 degree angle of the plane, it should eventually take off by itself. So I started a new career file after not really playing for a long time and I'm now at the point where I just dropped 45 Science to unlocked Aviation to get some of the plane parts that I need. You can resolve the emergency by transferring fuel from rear fuel tanks to forward fuel tanks, but you should alter your design to bring your wings further back to prevent such incidents in the future. Privacy Policy. First try speed over land reached over 210 m/s before flipping in the last second. If you've been able to successfully re-enter on previous low orbit test runs, you should be able to use this method to achieve similar rates of success once you've slowed down sufficiently. One final point to consider is the mass you're planning to store in the fuselage. Why is it doing this? This thread is quite old. For a Mk1-based aircraft, your rear landing gears should not be tightly tucked together on the fuselage. There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. Be aware that landing on water is an option if your spaceplane can fly level at less than ~40-50 m/s. (Yes, you personally, you lucky thing! I have created a score of other aircrafts with different designs but deleted them because they didnt work even on the runway. Aircraft in this game is almost unfeasible, especially in career mode, you will lose all your money before you finally design an aircraft that can even takeoff. As you would expect, spaceplanes need wings: they have various shapes and dimensions, and they differ basically in lift rating: you will want to have enough lift to keep your fuselage approximately prograde during your ascent to orbit. I had this one plane, very fast, It would go to 170 m/s on the runway then drop of the end and soar very nicely. Slowly pitch up to avoid overheating. After placing wheels I always use the rotate gizmo on snap with absolute orientation. When gear is placed, it has just one point of attachment. mods used are OPT for most of the body and the front canards and tail plane, B9 procedural wings for the wings, and mk4 . Safety note: Disable the brakes on the front landing gear. After externsive testing and bloodpressure rise, results: it doesnt matter where you place the wheels, as long as they are not angled on the X (nose-tail) axis. EDIT: It was the b9 procedural wings. To takeoff and land at low speed, it's helpful to rotate the wings so the leading edge is slightly above the trailing edge. Here's a quick installment in to the. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. If you use an Advanced SAS, and raise your front landing wheel so that it is higher than the rear wheels, by just turning the SAS on and going full throttle, due to the 10 degree angle of the plane, it should eventually take off by itself. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design.