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Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/TheBrokenSwordYouTube/Twitter https://twitter.com/TheBroken_SwordInstagram https://www.instagram.com/thebroken_sword/----------Please consider subscribing to the channel for all future updates based on the Lord of the Rings!Any future news and updates regarding the show or anything else, we will be sure to let you guys know ASAP!Also, if you have any suggestions for future videos too, then please leave a comment below!----------We do not claim to own the rights to any of the art work used throughout this video. Still it was a meritorious disobedience and worthy of praise. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. Sauron originally made the One Ring to enhance his ability to influence and suppress or control the wills of other beings, specifically the Children of Ilvatar (Elves, Dwarves, and Men). He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. But what does Saruman do now? As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? Would Sauron be able to open two fronts, battling against Isengard and Gondor? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Why Rings of Powers Fight Scenes Are Boring. This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. **, And this kind of begs the question - What had been done with the three? Is he stronger than the will of the ring? Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? I think Saruman would have kept the Ring and used its real and symbolic powers to contest with Sauron for control over Middle-earth by building up his own empire. Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. Because the One Ring was the master to all . mostly minifigs and decorated bricks. Was the "Eye of Sauron" Sauron's actual physical form? Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. Gandalf was going to announce that Sauron had found the Ring. Ummm, thats what the One Ring does for someone who has zero magical ability. "In a hole in the ground there lived a rabbit? In the case of Sauron it increased his ability to deceive people, entice people to his will, made him stronger and faster then he had been, wiser in the use of his raw poweress, "and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore the lesser Rings of Power." Saruman was known for being subtle in speech (with a powerful ability to sway others with his voice) and skilled in smithcraft. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. 3 Why didnt Gandalf use the giant eagles? You are using an out of date browser. its forging) to end (the . Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. The implication is that Saruman has to defeat Sauron. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. How might the Ring have helped Saruman in his empire-building? Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. Tolkien edited by Christopher Tolkien. Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. Hes lost his way in a search for greater power. Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. (Letter 246). :)#LordoftheRingsWhatIf #Saruman #WhatIfSaruman On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. I dont find it terribly exciting that Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth and was good from the beginning (with Noris help). JavaScript is disabled. Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? The situation in The Lord of the Rings was pretty dire. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. By the end of Return of the King, Saruman has lost his powers and has resorted to becoming a lowly criminal. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. Saruman's power is that of influence, both in a political sense of his influence as the highest member of the council, but also in the sense of being able to have some control over other people . Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * Saruman himself is not directly involved, and only appears again in chapter 10, The Voice of Saruman, by which time he is trapped in Orthanc. Lots of great, exclusive content, even discounts on our original merch! 3 yr. ago. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Still, this is a point to consider. Sauron w. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . For all things Tolkien, Lord of The Rings, and The Hobbit Press J to jump to the feed. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez It would be difficult for Sauron. For The War of the Rohirrim anime, one answer might draw on the "canon" of the Peter Jackson films. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. When the White Council was formed around T.A. Well? Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? I suspect that most of us think Saruman's treachery is so fundamental to Lord of the Rings, that it is almost impossible to imagine the epic without it. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. Although this is never explicitly stated, Galadriel alluded to the Fact that Gandalf, . You must log in or register to reply here. Galadriel) might have been able to master the ring. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. CK Goksoy - https://www.artstation.com/ckgoksoyIvan Cavini - https://www.ivancavini.comTed Nasmith - https://www.tednasmith.comPeter Xavier Price https://www.deviantart.com/peetAdam Middleton - https://www.artstation.com/adammiddMagali Villeneuve - http://www.magali-villeneuve.comThumbnail Art: \"Saruman\" - (Artist Unknown)\"Black Orcs, Uruk Hai\" - Skinny22\"The Ring\" - Helm1892Art in order of First appearance:Saruman - (Artist Unknown)Saruman with the Palantir kuliszuThe One Ring - benjamin-lindquistMiddle Earth KlaradoxWay to Mordor IribelIsengard Uruk - Tey BartolomeThe Riders of Rohan TurnerMohanSaruman OtisFramptonSaruman the White DanielGovarSauron The Lord of the Rings - William FaucherSaruman fanart - Samthalsabey-ArtSauron - AnotherStranger-MeSaruman the White - YoungPhoenix3191Saruman VihrushkaGandalf the White - Suzanne-Helmigh Saruman AlMaNeGrAFortress of Isengard monpuasajrBlack Orcs, Uruk Hai - Skinny22Helms Deep - Paul LasaineUruk-hai AlexBocaOne Ring to Rule Them All (LOTR) AnatoFinnstarkThe White Rider ralphdamianiEdoras AllrichArtSaruman - Cocoz42The One Ring - LOTR - Jimmy-AppeltSaruman the White adenryTheoden, King of Rohan ArtisAllanRohan peetAmon Din aegeriSaruman JleonardKSaruman jalvMinas Tirith SamscrapbookGandalf the White FacuamThe last march of the Ents GrazianoRoccataniThe Istari - Ivan Cavini(Gwaihir saves Gandalf - Miruna-Lavinia)(Ents TolyanMy)Treason of Isengard lostknightkgSaruman gaberoseartSaruman - KelseyMH33Merry and Pippin icanfeeltheearthturnSaruman of Many Colours TolmanCottonSaruman and the Palantir malibunnySaruman the White pfodraThe Five Istari (Wizards) - (Arist Unknown)Saruman - aquiles-soirBattle of Dale - (Artist Unknown)Sauron NynseiSaruman the White MattDeMinoOrc Warrior - (Artist Unknown)Nazgul StyooNazgul darekzabrockiSauron Jerry VandersteltUruk-Hai JHKrisSauron War of the Last Alliance MattDeMinoSaruman - malara-artWitch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-IbucultaSaruman LychnobiaSaruman - Concept-Art-HouseSauron-As He Sat The One Ring Upon His Finger IngvildSchageArt----------All content falls under fair use: any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and transformative purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. How did Saruman become corrupted? When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. But now that he was back in Mordor, he was openly . Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. Luckily, Gandalf refused, and the rest of the trilogy didn't play out in Saruman's favor. So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. Even if Theoden triumphed at Helm's Deep in this scenario, Saruman would be relatively safe in Isengard and Aragorn would not be able to look into the Palantir which is what led Sauron to focus his attention in Aragorn's direction and not around his own borders. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. Nor do we how long would it have taken for Saruman to master the powers of the Ring. The Lord of the Rings; Middle-Earth (Franchise) entertainment news He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. Saruman knew good and well what would happen when he tried holding Gandalf. Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! Did Peter Jackson take inspiration for Gollum from "Dracula 1931" movie. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? What are the benefits of digital signatures? Ap. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Frodo would have continued into Mordor and odds are he would have been discovered there. Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. 2463, Saruman was appointed its leader.Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his One Ring.Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature Gollum, drawing the Dark Lord closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Opens in new tab Opens in new tab Opens in new tab. Again Aragorn refuses it, apparently without any internal struggle whatsoever. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. But eventually the Ring would subvert their efforts and bring about evil. You are using an out of date browser. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. Telchar, an uber Dwarven smith who lived in the first age, forged Narsil. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. There would have been no need to send an army; this would have been a one-on-one contest in Orthanc. In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? Saruman joined Sauron only partially. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. If Saruman masters the ring, he will have a chance of defeating Sauron. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. What about Galadrial? By Luka Glavas / February 5, 2022. Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. It does not store any personal data. He would have learned what very few people knew - the actual objective of the Quest of the Ring, that it was being taken to Mt. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. In the case of vague powers the One Ring would enhance one's powers based on one's strengths. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. All betting content is intended for an . 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. Tolkien. Answer (1 of 13): If Saruman acquired the One Ring and had time to learn to use it, then he would go to war against Sauron. The Witch-king of Angmar was the leader of the Nazgl, or Ringwraiths, and the right-hand man of Sauron through much of the Second and Third Ages of . Sauron then spends the rest of his life torturing Saruman for daring to try and take the ring for himself. If Saruman had the ring and he learned to master it, he could rule Sauron's armies and servants as it says in The Fellowship Of The Ring. "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? If the Uruk Army sent by Saruman had captured Frodo and had gotten the One Ring to Saruman, what would Saruman have done with it? In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. The Ring still wants to be with its true master. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. He and his servants already knew of his involvement in the attack on the Fellowship and the capture of the hobbits. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? I'm a little vague on this point. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . Doom. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. New Movie News, Movie Trailers & upcoming Movie Reviews, Saruman Gaining the One Ring Would Have Doomed Middle-earth Even Faster, Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil, How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons, REVIEW: Frank Miller Presents Ancient Enemies: The Djinni #1 Crafts a Compelling Origin Story, REVIEW: DC's Shazam! Instead of sending armies out to take Minas Tirith, Sauron would have had the majority of his forces concentrated on his borders and sweeping the land in front of it with orcs, men, trolls, and Nazgul. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one.